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Many Wisconsin business owners could soon learn about a way to “go green” without losing any green. Green Tier is a program run through the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources designed to encourage environmental responsibility in business, while still benefiting companies. Businesses enter into contracts which offer them incentives for doing the environmentally responsible thing instead of punishments for polluting. A two-day forum on Green Tier will be held Feb. 4 and 5 at the Monona Terrace in Madison. We talk to DNR Secretary Matt Frank about the program, which has been in effect since 2004.
Green Tier Information
Click Here to Watch Green Tier - 12:30 (Real Media)
Click Here to Watch Green Tier - 12:30 (Windows Media)
On Monday, Wisconsin Public Television launched a brand new digital channel called the Wisconsin Channel that will feature local programming. New programs include a music show called “The 30 Minute Music Hour” and a program called “My Wisconsin Stories.” James Steinbach, director of television, will join us in the studio to discuss this exciting development.
A few weeks ago we introduced you to an Australian Packer fanatic so crazy about the “green and gold” that he uprooted his family from their home in Sydney to build a new life in Green Bay. Wayne Scullino is back to talk about Sunday’s big game and how he feels about the fact that he may get to watch the Packers in the Super Bowl.
Our End Insight commentator Christian Schneider shares his views on Milwaukee’s “School Choice” program. The Milwaukee Parental Choice Program uses state funds to enroll low-income children in private schools.
Wisconsin Public Television
Transcript For: "Here and Now"
Original Air Date: January 18, 2008.
Frederica Freyberg:
Welcome to "Here and Now." I'm Frederica Freyberg. It's a green and gold weekend in Wisconsin. Later tonight, we'll go to Titletown and talk with one of the greatest Packer backers of all time. Green is a bit of a theme tonight because we'll also hear of a pulp operation in Tomahawk that's finding new ways to go green. The department of Natural Resources has a plan of incentives to get more state manufacturers to go green, it’s called Green Tier. And DNR Secretary Matt Frank is here to tell us about it. If you like public TV, and if you’re watching tonight then perhaps you do then you might be interested to know that we have a new channel now. Later the director of Wisconsin Public Television will join us to explain. And our "End Insight" commentator, Christian Schneider, rounds out our program with an essay on Milwaukee School Choice. But first a story about a company that is going above and beyond, literally. The Packaging Corporation of America is a pulp and paper mill in Tomahawk. How and why the company decided to meet federal environmental standards and then some is a story produced by Liz Koerner for our sister program, "In Wisconsin."
Liz Koerner:
A fully loaded logging truck rolling down the road is a pretty common sight in Tomahawk. That’s because Packaging Corporation of America runs a paper and pulp mill in this Lincoln County town. The paper industry has long been one of the biggest polluters in the state and the mill in Tomahawk is no exception.
Neil Baudhuin:
They’re in the higher ranking in the state somewhere around 14th or 15th overall.
Koerner:
Even though they're one of the state's top 20 industrial polluters the company hasn’t exceed their Air Emission Permit levels since 1987.
Baudhuin:
They are a very good company. Their environmental manager is very conscientious. If there is a question about something that they're doing they call and ask before they do anything or make any changes.
Koerner:
One of these changes came about because of a new EPA rule back in 1998. The rule prohibits the release of certain hazardous airborne pollutants. These pollutants are released at one stage of the paper making process called pulping.
John Piotrowski:
Pulp is made by taking wood chips and cooking them in a giant pressure cooker for lack of a better term.
Koerner:
The problem is when the finished pulp is ejected from the pressure cooker polluting gases escape into the air.
Piotrowski:
It would be like poking a hole in a tire. There is a sudden burst of air that is evolved when you eject the pulp out of the digester. Those gases have in them these organic constituents that the EPA was concerned about.
Koerner:
While mill engineers were researching the technology to meet the requirements they found a way to reduce air pollution six times more than what was required by law.
Piotrowski:
We found that there was a much more efficient way and a much more productive way to capture the pollutants that EPA was interested in controlling through the use of a liquid stream as opposed to a gaseous stream.
Koerner:
In other words, they prevented the pollutants from escaping into the air by capturing them and condensing them into a liquid.
Piotrowski:
We saw that here would be about a million pound per year increase in pollution control by collecting the liquid condensates.
Bauduin:
A million pounds of reduction for hazardous air pollutants is significant. Two percent or 4 percent overall from the plant as far as hazardous air pollutants. It's a significant reduction.
Koerner:
After they condense them into a liquid they pipe it to large concrete tanks at the mill's waste water plant.
Piotrowski:
We pump it to our waste water treatment plant because the components in the condensation act as a food source for certain types of bacteria.
Koerner:
They are called anaerobic bacteria and because they work best without oxygen the tanks are sealed with a rubberized cover. What happened next surprised even the plant's engineers.
Piotrowski:
We noticed a very marked increase in gas production, little bubbles bursting through the surface of the water column.
Koerner:
As the anaerobic bacteria digest the pollution they produce what’s called bio gas and a lot of it.
Piotrowski:
Each day we could fill four Goodyear Blimps with the amount of biogas they produce here.
Koerner:
It's put back in the mill as a green energy source replacing natural gas, an expensive fossil fuel.
Piotrowski:
In rough numbers, the value of the biogas to this plant is in excess of $1 million a year.
Koerner:
The mill invested almost 2 and a half million dollars to put in the pollution control system and it's already more than paid for itself by saved fuel cost. A DNR official says the mill in Tomahawk is able to make it pay off because their chemical process is unique.
Bauduin:
But they are our only semi-chemical pulp mill in the entire state.
Koerner:
The other state mills are content to meet the letter of the law.
Bauduin:
They look at meeting the regulations. To go farther than that is generally pretty costly.
Koerner:
At the paper mill in Tomahawk, John Piotrowski sees benefits beyond the bottom line.
Piotrowski:
It seemed like an obvious win/win for the environment, the regulating community as well as the regulated entity, Tomahawk Mill.
Freyberg:
That was Liz Koerner reporting. It turns out that the Tomahawk Mill was actually a prototype participant in something called Green Tier. That's a DNR program of incentives for factories to run cleaner. Matt Frank is the secretary of the DNR. Thank you for being here.
Matt Frank:
Thank you. Good to be here.
Freyberg:
Tell us exactly what this Green Tier program is.
Frank:
The Green Tier program was passed by the Wisconsin legislature a couple years ago, signed into law by Governor Doyle. The idea behind it is the DNR works proactively with companies that really want to have a significant environmental impact, not only in the way they do business, but in their community. And we've gotten off to a great start with the program. We've got over 24 companies in the program. It's a program that we're looking to expand greatly in the years to come.
Freyberg:
What do companies have to do to take part?
Frank:
Well, first of all, they really step up and say we're going to make a commitment to superior environmental performance. We have a whole regulatory structure to ensure that environmental standards are met in this state. We have a great state for that. It's a beautiful state with a strong environmental tradition. This takes that and goes another couple steps beyond that. We work with companies as they look at their entire environmental footprint and make improvements in how they do things to benefit the environment overall.
Freyberg:
What's in it for them?
Frank:
A number of things. One is, first of all, as I travel the state, I know there are a lot of businesses out there who care deeply about the state. People are a real strong part of their community and they want to make a difference. So it's that kind of commitment. It's also often it makes sense from the bottom line in terms of being profitable. I think as we look at environmental sustainability and corporate profitability, those things are not exclusive. Companies can do both at the same time and as we've worked with companies in this program, we found that they've been able to make changes that benefit not only the environment, but help them be more profitable and competitive in the marketplace.
Freyberg:
What kind of incentives are there? There are state incentives for them to sign up?
Frank:
There are. One is that we work with them proactively in solving environmental problems. We give them a little more latitude in terms of regulation. They still have to hit our standards and of course in most cases they exceed those standards because of their commitment to the program. So we have to have some monitoring. But they get some more flexibility in how they are regulated in the state structure. The other thing is companies are real interested in being known as a green company. Companies see the potential of using that in the marketplace in a very beneficial way to have a competitive advantage. Consumers more and more are paying attention to the environment. They care about the environmental blueprint that companies have and they respond to that in the marketplace.
Freyberg:
Now, we know that one of the things afforded these companies if they go ahead and take part is this streamlined regulation, regulatory process. But what does that mean? That doesn't necessarily mean, as you've said, that they take a pass on some of the restrictions.
Frank:
No. They still have to meet all the standards that we have and the idea behind the program is that they actually exceed the standards. If I could explain it this way, in part, we've had great success in this country and this state over the years, over the past 30, 35 years in cleaning up our environment. And the model has been government sets the standards and then dictates to the company “hit those standards,” and often sometimes with great detail, “here's how you're supposed to do it.” And companies then respond to that and they call that kind of a command and control regulatory structure. We are now evolving to work with companies who want to step up to the plate and work outside of that -- not outside of that structure, but beyond that structure, to work proactively with us to exceed those kind of standards. Instead of just looking at the pollution that comes out the end of the pipe and saying put a control on that, let's look at the entire manufacturing process. Maybe the manufacturer ends up changing the chemicals they use, which mean that they don't have to put the control on the end of the pipe because they've now improved their process.
Freyberg:
What's an example of a company that's part of the Green Tier program and what have they done?
Frank:
It's really all across the board. We've got Kimberly-Clark, for example. Wholesome Dairies up in the northeast. We have an agricultural company and others. Recently we signed a charter with the Dairy Business Association, which is made up of dairy farms all across the state. We're interested in working with them proactively to look at how they're producing energy, looking at the issue of can you have a greener imprint on the environment if you're actually using energy that's produced on the farm from cows. Some of those things that are really innovative and creative and going beyond just looking at seeing if they're meeting the latest standard.
Freyberg:
And how is this to fit with any kind of environmental goals that the state has long range?
Frank:
Well, the goal is we really believe that certainly government will always have a role and has to have a role in setting that environmental standard. We think that's very important. People through their elected officials set these standards. We've got a good track record on that. But I think in the future we are going to make more progress if we are actually working alongside businesses that are willing to make these kind of changes. And I think we're at the start of something I think that has great implications for the future. We want to be working proactively to improve the environment and also help Wisconsin companies be competitive in the marketplace. As I said earlier, I think the two things go together.
Freyberg:
Secretary Matt Frank, thanks very much. Wisconsin's Green Tier Advantage is the name of a two-day environmental conference next month. It takes place February 4 and 5 in Madison at the Monona Terrace Convention Center. Meanwhile, we asked some of you how manufacturers could be encouraged to go green. Here's what you said.
Woman:
Well, I think possibly giving the companies that comply with environmentally sound policies and regulations certain -- perhaps a tax break or encouraging consumers to buy products that are green.
Man:
I suppose they always give tax breaks and that type of thing for those things to get people to do it. So maybe that's the way to do it.
Woman:
I think one way to encourage businesses to go green is by promoting wind power and solar power and making it easily accessible to everybody, because right now it's pretty pricey, from what I know.
Woman:
For example, a grocery store, I think they could stop giving out bags for free at the aisles. We lived in Europe and you had to either bring your own bags and you had to pay every time you took a bag. That would be a big step in reducing waste.
Freyberg:
We move now from green to green and gold. On Tuesday the Packer Organization brought in the hoard of snow shovelers to scoop out the Lambeau bleachers for this weekend's big game. One of those shovelers is a person who, until this winter, had never even seen snow before. We introduced you to superfan Wayne Scullino last month. He’s the guy who moved his whole family last summer from Australia to Green Bay, all because he wanted to experience a season in Titletown. He picked the right season, all right, and he joins us now from Green Bay. Wayne, thanks very much for doing so.
Wayne Scullino:
No worries, thanks for having me.
Freyberg:
So now the state's larger newspaper this morning gave you the award for the “Nutty Packers Fan who Moved the Farthest.” What do you think of that accolade?
Scullino:
Yeah. We certainly moved the farthest. That's for sure. Wasn't sure about the nutty part. So long as it's all fun, I'm quite happy to wear it.
Freyberg:
We're liking your coat too. That should hold you in good stead on Sunday in those conditions.
Scullino:
I’m hoping so, in fact I was talking to my wife earlier on and I'm trying to figure out how many layers I'm actually going to wear. I have another coat similar. I've never had to wear them together. I'm certainly trying out now to see if they both fit under and on top of each other.
Freyberg:
Have you been getting some tips from the locals there about just what you might have to wear?
Scullino:
People just keep saying layer and layer and layer. They keep telling me you cannot be too warm on Sunday. Somebody said to me it's deathly cold. If you don't take care of yourself, you'll be in all sorts of trouble. That's a bit concerning. We know it gets cold here. When somebody says take care of yourself or else, you shut up and listen.
Freyberg:
Absolutely. In fact, how did you come by the tickets you're going to use for Sunday?
Scullino:
I've been really lucky in fact. We've made a lot of friends here in Green Bay. One of the friends we made, her husband refuses to go when it starts to get cold, so usually by December she's trying to find somebody to go with. Thankfully we are and I'm happy to take the ticket each week. I was at last week's game with her. I'm very happy to go again this week with her.
Freyberg:
I bet. Just how excited are you to be at ground zero there in Green Bay for this entire season?
Scullino:
Oh, I can't believe it. I mean, we have been so lucky. Somebody said you're so lucky to come here this season. It's right. The last two seasons the way they were, 4-12 and 8-8. To think we come at this season, get to watch Brett break all those great records, get to watch Greg Jennings come out the way he has, to have the playoff game is incredible. To get the NFC championship game at Lambeau Field, it's beyond comprehension. I couldn't have written this and believed it five months ago. It's amazing.
Freyberg:
You said that this guy who doesn't like the bitter cold there has been affording you these tickets. What's the most you've ever had to pay, though, for a ticket?
Scullino:
We've been really lucky at Lambeau Field. We've never had to pay above face value. We've always known somebody who either had a ticket or knew somebody else who had a ticket. Buying tickets on the road, though, in places like Dallas, Kansas City and Denver, they're expensive, up around the $230 mark. I was really pleased on Sunday. I shed a tear on Sunday when New York won and I knew I didn't have to go through that in Dallas.
Freyberg:
Does all your exposure, and I don't mean the windchill on your face, but all of your exposure allowed you uncommon access to this team, including the bigs, like number 4 himself?
Scullino:
I'm not sure about that. We've been lucky to meet who we have met. We did meet Brett on Saturday night, but I think that was more about being in the right place at the right time and somebody heard my accent and before I knew it someone said look -- someone I didn't know even, said if you'd like to meet Brett, I'll take you over. Outside of that we haven't really -- we haven't sort of gone anywhere or done anything different to any other regular fan here in Green Bay.
Freyberg:
What was it like to meet Brett?
Scullino:
Oh, it was amazing. It’s difficult, what do you say when you meet statistically the greatest quarterback in the history of the game? To look into his eyes and think I'm talking to Brett and Deanna Favre. It was amazing. It was out of this world. Like I said, it was unexpected too. It wasn't planned. It just sort of came about. We were having a Pepsi at the bar. That was good.
Freyberg:
Did he know who you were?
Scullino:
Yeah. Yeah, they did. They knew that I was the Australian guy. It was nice to meet them.
Freyberg:
Well, when you say good day to Green Bay and hello back to Sydney again, how will you describe Green Bay to the people Down Under?
Scullino:
It's one of the most fantastic places we've been to. My wife and I have been lucky enough before we had kids to travel to Europe, travel around our country and I've been to the states previously, the west coast. But you don't experience real America until you get into the Midwest and meet people and sit down and have meals and make friends. And, you know, Green Bay to me is -- and my wife has been so fantastically open, so warm. The people here have been so great. We've had a great time. It's been magical and you know so different. We’re coming from the big smoker of Sydney. We're used to millions of people and big tall buildings and people who don't say hello to you on the streets. It's been such a beautiful change to be here. We're here for the Packers, but the life experience we’ve got through being here has been something else.
Freyberg:
Very quickly, Wayne, score prediction for Sunday?
Scullino:
Score prediction, 31-13 to the Packers.
Freyberg:
All right. Thank you so much. It's really nice to talk with you.
Scullino:
No, worries. Thanks for having me.
Freyberg:
With less than two days before kickoff, we asked some of you what preparations you were making for Packer victory? Here's what you said.
Woman:
Just my clothes that I wear, you know. Well, this is a new one, but I have one that I wear all the time. Oh, yeah, [pointing to Packer earrings] these are handcrafted.
Man:
I probably usually wear a particular sweatshirt or t-shirt, but other than that, no real rituals.
Woman:
My husband will be watching the game, although he has worn his 1996 Packers t-shirt that's about three sizes too small for the last 12 years now.
Woman:
No, because I'm a pastor and we have worship.
Student:
No, I really don't, but I'm going to be in Minnesota and I don't know what they're going to think of my Packer jersey, but they're going to have to deal with it.
Freyberg:
We won't hold it against you if you're watching the Packer game Sunday night instead of public television, but we do have a reason for you to tune into our programming as soon as the game is over. It's called the Wisconsin Channel, a whole new service with brand new Wisconsin grown programs for you. Here to tell you how to find it and what you'll see when you do is the director of Wisconsin Public Television, our boss, James Steinbach. Thanks a lot for being here.
James Steinbach:
Good to be here.
Freyberg:
Well, what new channels is Wisconsin Public Television carrying?
Steinbach:
Well, let me start counting. We have the Wisconsin Channel, like you said. We have -- this is not new, but we have a channel called Create, which is “how to.” We have the kids channel, which is kids. And all of this comes about because we have digital television. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about that except to say that it gives us more channels.
Freyberg:
And the Wisconsin Channel in particular is launching some new homegrown programming. What is that?
Steinbach:
We are. Well, one, and I think right now really the one that's most exciting is called the 30 Minute Music Hour and it's got one really cool thing about it which is it was produced by Andy Moore, producer of this program. This is kind of a stretch, doing public affairs and doing music. But it's really fun. And he is a musician and writer as well as a journalist. So it's a terrific show.
Freyberg:
And so when will people be able to see that?
Steinbach:
I have to look at the schedule and see, actually. The 30 minute music show, let's see, there's one today, as we were -- this is Friday today. At 5:30. It was on earlier in the day as well. It's scattered through the schedule. And through a given week we're going to be running many news programs more than once. We know that people are doing a lot of things and that somebody who is watching at 10:30 in the afternoon may not be watching at 4:00. So there's a lot of opportunity to take the shows and offer them again. We don't call them repeats. We call them encores.
Freyberg:
Are there other programs we're working on putting on the Wisconsin Channel?
Steinbach:
Yeah. One really exciting thing we’re doing is call University Place is on right now, two hours a day of lectures, presentations from the university. Right now the University of Wisconsin. But it will include other universities as well and so you can find out about things like weather on planets and the rest of the solar system. I mean, it's a terrific -- it's kind of a series of introductory lectures to a variety of topics. We're about to start a program on Independent Film in Wisconsin. We'll be talking with independent filmmakers, showing some of their work. There's a lot of possibilities. We're just starting. But, you know, public -- Wisconsin Public Television is -- we've always done local programs, but public television, we cover a broad range. We have terrific kid shows. We have educational programs. We have news and public affairs. We have history. We have dance. We have culture. Many of those programs are from international and national producers and they're wonderful. We also do as much as we can local, right here, like this program. And the Wisconsin Channel, that's what it's for. It says people care about Wisconsin and so these programs, every single one in the schedule, is by or about or for something here.
Freyberg:
How exciting is that for you as director of television?
Steinbach:
It's wonderful. Because when public television, the thing that's really wonderful about it, is the localism. It just doesn't get any better than this. I have to say, audiences love these shows. We know that. But it's also terrific for people working on them because this is why you do this. You do this because you want to make a difference. And one of the ways you can do that is by telling stories about home. So that's what we're doing.
Freyberg:
James, thanks very much for telling us about this. For people who have questions about how they can get digital channels they can go to our website and it's fully explained there.
Steinbach:
It’s fully explained, and I encourage people to do that. Wpt.org.
Freyberg:
Thanks a lot.
Freyberg:
Finally tonight our "End Insight" segment. Milwaukee Private School Choice popped back in the news this week. Our commentator, Christian Schneider, took the news as an opportunity to defend the program in the face of what he says are organized forces against it. Here's Christian Schneider and tonight's "End Insight."
Christian Schneider:
Once again, the Milwaukee Private School Choice Program is under attack. This time it's from a state assemblyman who actually represents the families who benefit most from the program. Fred Kessler has said his plan to reduce voucher payments to some schools could cut choice participation by 40 percent, but it could have devastating effects on the program as a whole. The choice program gives predominantly low-income, minority parents in Milwaukee the chance to send their kids to private schools with a state-funded voucher. Over 18,000 children, most of them African-American, now have the chance to escape the Milwaukee Public School System and receive the same private school education that wealthy kids do. In fact, according to state figures, it costs nearly half as much to send a student to a choice school than it does to the local public schools, so the program actually saves taxpayers money. Without question, the Milwaukee Choice Program has become the gold standard for other private voucher programs nationwide. Parental approval of the program is through the roof. Yet opponents of the program want to pull the rug out from under kids who are succeeding in their new schools. This harms not only the kids, but punishes parents who are fighting against the tidal wave of parental indifference that is drowning the children in their neighborhoods. And why are these kids at risk of being cast back into a failing school system? Because their private school teachers have committed the mortal sin of not being members of the teachers union. In a state where African-American math and reading levels continue to fall well below those of white school children, the teachers union continues to fight the one glimmer of hope these children have. In the end, the union doesn't care about black and white. They are more interested in keeping their green. And that is a tragedy.
Freyberg:
Christian Schneider. Christian appears on "Here and Now" as a commentator with his own insights and opinions. Before we leave you to don the green and gold for the weekend, this program reminder. Next Wednesday night at 7:00, Governor Doyle will take the podium in the Assembly Chamber at the State Capitol for his annual State of the State Address. I will be there to cover the speech and you will hear it live starting at 7:00 next Wednesday night. Until then, I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend. And go Packers.


